Need Electrician

Randy,

The problem is not complex. My biggest problem is I use too many words!

I bought a condo in the Windmill Club and I'm renovating it. The home was originally all electric (no gas) with aluminum wiring and a 150 amp federal pacific box. Then along comes 30 years worth of home owners who thought they would fix or improve this. Hopefully I will be the last and will get it right.

Here is what I walked into:

The home was eventually converted to gas and the electric stove and furnace were removed. The electric water heater and dryer are still there. I was going to pull them both out but it was easier to leave them. The water heater was brand new and I replaced the electric dryer instead of converting to gas.

A 100 amp GE sub-panel was added for lighting and outlets. The water heater, dryer and AC remain on the 150 amp main panel. New copper lines were run to all three.

Most of the other aluminum was replaced with copper and it "seems" to have been done properly. (Or at least enough to satisfy any building inspector.) I'm still going through each box to check it.

I found a few remaining aluminum circuits and they are fine. Most were pigtailed and connected to a copper outlet or switch. And some were connected directly to the outlets. It seems no one knows that a 69 cent outlet is not compatible with aluminum and you need to spend a few bucks more for the correct version.

I pulled each cap, checked each pigtail and added Noalux. Some of the aluminum was connected to copper-only outlets and I pigtailed those. And in some cases I just used the AL/CO outlets instead.

Someone did a lot of additional wiring and they ran a lot of home-runs from some of the boxes. The end result is that some boxes were seriously over-crowded so I split them.

He also had most of his GFCI wired wrong or they used an excessive amount. He had 4 outlets above the kitchen counters and all were on the same circuit. Each had a GFCI outlet! He only needed to wire the first with a GFCI and everything else is downstream and protected.

I was questioning the electrical work from day one. Especially when I saw that the new outlets had the 14 gauge copper wire connected using the screw lugs instead of the quick connect provided.

The current configuration is as follows. The original 150 amp FP main panel still has the breakers for the AC, the dryer, the water heater and a sub-panel. There is 100 amp GE sub panel that feeds all the outlets, lights, kitchen appliances, etc.

The sub-panel is fed with 6 gauge copper and it's hanging off an undersized 30 amp breaker in the main. The sub has a mixture of 15 and 20 amp circuits feeding outlets, lights and fans. The wire is copper and the gauges are all correct in size. (14 gauge for 15 amp and 12 gauge for a 20 amp). The number of fixtures/outlets per breaker is also about right but we may have stretched the limit a bit with some of the recessed lighting and fans.

My biggest constant consumption (from the sub) will occur from the fridge, dishwasher, microwave and 16 high hats - all off the sub-panel. The washer, furnace and a whirlpool (unheated) bath are there too. Each has a motor. They don't consume too much other than the surge at startup.

The whirlpool (no heater) tub was installed but it was never wired up. I added a separate 15 amp dedicated circuit for the tub. (Correct size according to specs).

I have 240 in the main and sub but I only need it in the main panel.

The FP breaker for the water heater was stolen by the company that winterized the home. They always do that to prevent someone from turning on a dry water heater. I replaced it. There was 10 gauge copper so I used a 30 amp split breaker.

There is 8 gauge copper running to the dryer on a 30 amp breaker. Not sure why they used an oversize wire since it's not a not a long run? Maybe it was a 40 and they reduced it?

There is also 10 gauge copper running to the the old AC but some moron stuck a 40 amp breaker on it. That should be a 30. I replaced the AC, added a service-pull-out (he had an exterior switch) and I will also put in a new 30 amp breaker too.

And I have 6 gauge running to the sub hanging off a 30 amp breaker. This will be increased to 40 but I could go to 50 if necessary.

My "gut" says the old AC was tripping the breaker so these dolts swapped out the 30 (for the AC) and switched it with the 40 (for the sub panel).

There is 6 gauge running to the sub-so I can easily switch them back but that 40 may still be undersized. Especially since I added the whirlpool and a dozen more high hats. In fact, the 6 gauge should support 50 amps so I shouldn't have a problem if I leave it with the 40.

The main breaker in the sub is 100. It serves no purpose because it's fed from the 30 in the main (soon to be the 40 because I don't feel like dropping a c-note for another 50 amp FP breaker!)

Here is how I plan to leave it.

150 amp FP main with 4 breakers. All branch circuits are 240 volts.

1. 8 gauge copper running to the dryer on a 30 amp split breaker.

2. 10 gauge copper running to the water heater on a newly installed (and seriously overpriced) 30 amp split breaker.

3. 10 gauge copper running to the AC. Currently an oversized 40 but will be switched back to a 30.

4. 6 gauge copper to the sub. Currently a 30 amp breaker but will be switched back to a 40 and could go to 50 if necessary.

The sub has a combo of 15 and 20's feedings lights and some 120 volt appliances. 240 is there but not needed.

I'm still going through the internal wiring and wondering how this place didn't burn down or fry the original occupants. Lots of broken grounds, some switched polarities, etc. Incorrect connections of aluminum and copper. I found 2 boxes (switches and outlets) fed by 2 separate breakers. And I found at least one instance where 2 breakers fed the same circuits and either breaker would turn off the branch.

Drinking and electricity do not mix. And who ever invented Bakelite boxes should have been shot!

It sounds like a lot but I believe I have it all under control.

My only real questions are

1. Do you think the 40 amp breaker in the main panel will support the rest of the circuits in the sub? There are about 12 circuits in the sub with a combination of 15 & 20's. I have 6 gauge feeding it so I could increase it if necessary.

2. I don't need 240 in the sub. Can I split my bars/breakers or do anything that would improve my sub-panel capacity without having to run additional wires from the main? (In theory - yes. But according to code - probably not since I can't feed one sub panel with 2 separate breakers.)

3. Do I need to do anything with the 100 amp in the sub-panel if I am feeding the panel with a 40 or 50 amp breaker? In this configuration, the 100 amp breaker in the sub panel serves no purpose.

My biggest problem is I use too many words to describe a simple problem! I just wanted you to have a clear picture (or maybe I made it murky! LOL!)

Thanks!

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