After School Activities Middle School

[Jody_Branin]

http://www.howell.k12.nj.us/news_main.aspx?id=871

Dear Parents/ Guardians,

The Howell Township Board of Education recognizes the importance of offering after school programs for students. These programs supplement the instructional program and provide a well-rounded experience for our students. In the coming 2010-2011 school year, the Howell Township Board of Education will continue to offer a full range of co-curricular activities that include clubs and sports on a subscription basis. The costs for these programs are reflected below:

SPORTS ENROLLMENT PER MIDDLE SCHOOL
  Min. # of Students* Cost Per Student
Fall:
Soccer - Boys 20 $370
Soccer - Girls 20 $370
Field Hockey 25 $330
Cross Country 40 $290
 
Winter:
Basketball - Boys 12 $620
Basketball - Girls 12 $620
Cheerleading 25 $285
Wrestling 40 $320
 
Spring:
Baseball 16 $495
Softball 16 $495
Track and Field 80 $260


CO-CURRICULAR ENROLLMENT PER MIDDLE SCHOOL
  Min. # of Students* Cost Per Student
Musical/Drama 50 $135
Student Council 20 $160
International Club 20 $130
Computer Club 20 $130
Literary Art Journal 10 $225
Art Club 20 $160
Yearbook 20 $200
Chorus 20 $240
Peer Tutoring 20 $150
Science 20 $150
TSA 20 $150

*Please note, there must be a minimum number of participants in order for the programs to be offered.

[John Gazire]

Well at least we got busing back. I see at these prices there will not be many kids participating. My son wrestled last year to try it and do something as a team in middle school but not at $320.  Can't wait for the blah blah blah excuses from our message board BOE members on this one. I could see a small fee but $620 to play basketball?

[Al_Miller]

These prices are outright ridiculous.

[James_Obrien]

These prices are outright ridiculous.

So I guess the increase in taxes that would have supported all these clubs and sports was not so bad after all. Kinda like the busing thing.

Hey maybe the Board really knows what they are doing after all.

[Tim OBrien]

"Can't wait for the blah blah blah excuses from our message board BOE members on this one. I could see a small fee but $620 to play basketball?"

No excuse needed here John.  Watch the video tape of the last board meeting.   Look at what was discussed and what direction the Board gave administration regarding after school clubs and sports.  Draw your own conclusions.
Tim O.

[Phil_Sanfilippo]

All,
    Peer tutoring should not be included.this is disgraceful and should be deleted immediately. In addition I do not fully agree with reinstating 100% busing this to should be pay as you go. I have some serious reservations with the a $800,000.00 thats was quoted for crossing guards. What were these people getting paid $20.00 bucks and hour and a full beneifits package.
                                                                                     my opinion
                                                                                    phil

[Fran_Albury]

It's my understanding that the $800,000 for crossing guards was for having them at every intersection that kids would have to cross on their way to school.  That seems excessive.

I think these numbers for extra curricular activities are way high and very inflated.  They say they need 20 kids for a soccer team at $370 per kid.  That's $7400 for a soccer team.    I'm sure there are some hidden costs (like liability insurance) that are included, but that still seems like a ridiculous amount.

I wouldn't mind having the PTO's help subsidize the cost of some of the activities so they can be kept free or very low cost so kids whose families don't have a lot of money can still participate. 

[Al_Miller]

These prices are outright ridiculous.

So I guess the increase in taxes that would have supported all these clubs and sports was not so bad after all. Kinda like the busing thing.

Hey maybe the Board really knows what they are doing after all.

I not sure I would blame the BOE 100% on this. This is more of an Administration thing.  At the last BOE Meeting the BOE gave like 3 or 4 scenarios for the Administration to go out and look at and price. Some were getting proposals from local leagues thru bids, Possible Volunteer Coaches and etc.  I would like to know were these amounts ever obtained. Were these numbers ever voted and approved by the BOE? If so was it done by a phone vote because it wasn’t done at a BOE Meeting? At the last BOE Meeting when Administration first proposed some of these a few of the After School Clubs were free. Such as yearbook, Student Council and I think 2 more and others were in the range of $150.00. I would have to watch the tape but I think I recall Mr. Sanasac say if we run all the programs at the minimum level the cost would average $150 each. Is that still the case? Can these numbers go down if more students come out over the minimum required? I think there are still questions that need to be answered by the District Administration and BOE in regards to these Pay to Play options and I urge parents to come out to the Next BOE Meeting on August 11th and ask questions.

Jamie,
I hope you are not suggesting that the Administration is getting back at the children because some parents voted No to their budget.

Fran,
At these rates I doubt the PTO / PTAs would be able to subsidize these programs. Remember you are talking about only 3 Middle Schools to make up a few hundred thousand dollars. If it was to run completely free to the students. They also would not be able to subsidize a certain amount of kids because lets say they are willing to pay for a few kids who determines which one gets paid for and which don’t. Remember you can have a large amount of Families that might not be able to pay.  Plus they are already subsidizing on the Middle School level Field trips, Caps & Gowns, yearbooks and etc. for Disadvantage Students. These definitely would have to come first over Sports & Extra Curricular Activities. I know one of the Middle Schools’s paid out a little over $9,000.00 for these items last year.   

[James_Obrien]

Jamie,
I hope you are not suggesting that the Administration is getting back at the children because some parents voted No to their budget.

 

[/quote]

Al, you are really reaching on that one. The numbers are so high because each team has to be self sufficient. It cannot rely on the income from a large sports/club turn out. Basketball is a cut sport, you can only have so many on the team, as a result it cost more the cost cannot be shared because there is no way to tell if other sport clubs will have a turn out.

The other avenues that where talked about take time to develop. A RFP takes time to put together.  Then you have to advertise, have an opening, and review the RFP's and then take action. The Boards direction was clear and the prices you see are step one that offers everything.

Like I said if you want everything and want it know then the parents of the participants will have to pay. You want it cheaper it takes time to put together a program.

And please try to recognize that the Board and the administration is a team and not two separate entities. They must work together to bring us the best product that we can afford.


Like I

[Jeanette_Smith]

I would suggest that everyone with an interest in this topic watch the 7/21/10 BOE meeting video:

http://howelltv.org/HTMLn/BOE%202010.html

Please note that there is a survey attached to these fees to assess interest at the suggested rates:

http://www.howell.k12.nj.us/sportsurvey/

Finally, anyone with comments can always use the online feedback form:

http://www.howell.k12.nj.us/contact_form.aspx

[Pat Garaffa]

The downward spiral continues!  

Something’s wrong here. It seems excessive unless the stipends are included in these costs?  

So it costs $6750 to have a musical?  And $4800 to have a chorus?  

Let’s see……All the parents volunteer.  The props are usually simple items (we don't need a real car on the stage and a cardboard car works pretty well.)  The kids don't get paid and they usually charge a fee at the door to offset expenses.  So technically, they are saying it costs more than $6750 or 4800.  Is this the cost of a stipend?  

And peer tutoring?  Do those students who are volunteering their time (to tutor others) have to pay?  Or is this for those who receive tutoring?  And if so - why not get a real tutor instead?  Again - is this the cost of a stipend?  

The only reason the yearbook happens at all is because an advisor gets lots of help from the students.  Do these kids get a free yearbook for paying $200 so they can volunteer their time to do work after school?   Insert stipend question here.  

I see this happening elsewhere.  My son volunteered for Habitat for Humanity and he had to pay them $65 a day so he could help them build a house!   Someone got a nice house and he got a free peanut butter sandwich for lunch.  

He wasn’t expecting to get paid.  That’s what volunteering is all about.  But why did he have to pay them? Especially when all the materials were donated (including the peanut butter) and they were rehabilitating an existing home?   Again, someone is lining their pockets.      

How does it costs $3200 to have a student council?  I recall our school student council was usually a bunch of nerdy types who hung out in a classroom after school once a month.  And then they came up with suggestions that the faculty ignored.  

From the bottom of the page:

*Please note, there must be a minimum number of participants in order for the programs to be offered.

Translation – the program will be cancelled if there isn’t enough money to pay the stipend.  

If I was a teacher, I would expect to get paid a little extra if I was performing this extra work.  The stipend probably equates to minimum wage and they only do it for the kids.  But how do we cancel a program because we come up short a handful of kids?  If 30 came out for the program last year, and only 15 came out this year, and it was cancelled, then what does that tell you?  

Here is a better translation:  

15 kids couldn’t participate because Mom and Dad couldn’t afford the $150 dollar cost.  The school saved $3000 and my taxes will be 30 cents less next year!   Hooray!  I just tossed 15 kids off the team because I wanted to shave 3 cents per month off my 2010 tax bill.  What can I do with that 30 cents?  

Hmmm – I could apply it to my 401K and retire 10 minutes early?

Or I could add it to my mortgage payment and pay off the house 1 day early?  

I’m sure my math is somewhat flawed but I’m sure we get the picture.  
  
My bigger concern - what happens to the property values of a town that has a crappy school?  Or a school without sports?  Or a school without extras-curricular programs or buses?  

Or a school where the kid’s “back to school list” will eventually include carpeting, ceiling tiles and light bulbs in addition to pencils and a shiny, new thermos?  

I’m not in favor of any waste, excesses or overpayments.  And I’m still on the fence about these “extras” coming from our taxes vs being paid directly from the parents (and then eventually going away due to lack of participation and spiraling costs.)

But here is the bottom line:

A crappy school, without programs and filled with fat, unmotivated kids equals lower housing demand – period!  No one is rushing to get their kids into Asbury or Lakewood even though the homes sell for half.  And Holmdel sells for twice Howell’s prices and the demand is still very high.  

These programs and buses do not translate to very much when it’s all netted out.  That 50 or 100 bucks you just saved next year will translate to 10’s of thousands in lost value when you sell your home!  

There must be a happy medium somewhere that will accommodate us all.  

[Jackie Everitt]

I sure hope that my kids don't want to play any sports when they get into the middle school - I really can not believe these costs - My thoughts are the BOE just wants to make these programs too much so that they can get rid of them because enough students won't be able to afford to join.

Sorry to the BOE Members that do not feel this way but as I stated this is my opinion and until I see a break down of every cost involved and where these figures came from nothing will change my mind. 

[Rob_Nicastro]

It's amazing how some people want to lead the charge; convincing everyone who lives in Howell to support the always-increasing school budget so that our children can receive the Ivy League education they do and  all the first class sports and extra curricular activities offered (I’m being sarcastic because my son played baseball and our school fields are an embarrassment) ; criticizing us when we vote the budget down because we keep telling the BOE that the great education they are supplying is becoming too expensive for Howell’s working families; scolding us when we complain about the outrageous fees that are being set for our children to play and participate in extracurricular activities;  and then saying “see that’s why you need to support the budget.” 

We have approximately 6700 children in the district and a budget in the neighborhood of  $108 million, according to the district web site, our  Superintendent earns a base salary of $185,786, paid health insurance of $10,824 and paid dental insurance of $1,332, a $6,573 retirement plan, $9,289 post-employment benefits, $35,000 and lastly in-kind and other remuneration totaling $13,333.

The average salary of the Assistant Superintendents is $150,000 plus benefits. Information Technology Director base annual salary, $114,125; Director of Building & Grounds base annual salary, $112,578; Manager of Web Content base annual salary, $81,497; Assistant Director/Network Engineer base annual salary, $101,675 and the list goes on. But, when the community  expresses its concern over salaries and spending habits, the silence is deafening.

The message is always, "support the budget so we don't lose programs for the kids."  But, the reality is even if we vote for the budget, our children get less, but personnel gets more by way of salary increases, all the while home values are going down.  And, those leading the charge still think they, in good conscience, can say, “Its all about the children."

[Jack_Giannattasio]

even if we vote for the budget, our children get less

Can you cite when the budget was passed and the children got less?  I'll answer for you - No, you can't.

Those of you who voted down the budget - I hope you put that $36.00 a year you saved to good use!

Oh, and for those unaware, FRHSD just cut winter track and JV cheerleading.

[Jody_Branin]

Peer tutoring should not be included.this is disgraceful and should be deleted immediately.

I agree with you on this one for sure.  My oldest did peer tutoring in Middle School and he saw this and responded "What the heck?".  And who pays?  The kids that want to tutor or the kids that need extra help - or both?   

Needless to say I won't be running with the Sports Crowd.  Never did, probably never will.  I don't have to worry about Middle School Sports and Clubs for a few years.  At this rate it will be double the cost listed above.   

Strange thing is, I don't think kids like Richie Rich even like to play sports.