BOE Meeting on Fees

[Joe_Tipaldo]

so wat happens if this teacher bailout gets passed by congress and the Prez signs it.

Does any of that money really save some teachers jobs? will some of those teachers be able to run some of the programs that will now incurr fees?

[John Gazire]

As a member of the Glen Arden Homeowner's Association. We usually schedule 3 meetings in the Aldrich media centers or cafeteria. We get there a few minutes early and move the tables then after the meeting we clean up any mess and put everything back. In these days of just going after the tax payers pockets we have tried to keep the annual dues as low as possible. This year we didn't raise them at all. 
Adding an additional fee to groups like Homeowner's Ass. or scouts will just force the leadership to have to pass it on to it's already tapped members. Also I'm sure there are many groups that use these rooms for meetings that don't have the extra monies for fees. Groups and organizations have always been able to utilize schools and library without having to worry about spending hundreds of dollars and they should continue to be able to.

[Pat Garaffa]

We have 2 choices - raise more money in fundrasiing efforts and you will just have to buy MORE plants!  Or we can pass the costs on to the members.  Or a combination of the two. 

We have about 60-80 members with some being active and others are more idle.  Dues will double and many will leave.  The fixed costs remain and must be paid by the remaining members so their dues are raised again and again. 

The troop gets smaller but the fixed costs remain the same.  Each remaining member is asked to pay more and more to support these fees.  Eventually, the costs are too high and the troop disbands.  No one wins. 

Or maybe the remaining few can meet in the janitors closet and get those fixed costs reduced. 

We always leave the room cleaner than we left it.  Maybe we should do the janitors job too?  If so - the school can save the costs of cleaning the room once a week and we can use the room for free.  If not, there are other places we can meet and I can't see paying more into the school that is giving us nothing in return.

[Chuck Welsh]

Lots of focus on how we taxpayers haven't really saved much with the defeat of the budget, but unfortunately, the cuts in other programs might be even more costly--if not in a monetary sense.

I'm thinking specifically of the loss of the middle school SAC (Student Assistance Counselor) position. The work that this person did went largely unnoticed outside of the schools, but it was critical in resolving many potential problems inside the schools. Obviously, one can't quantify the effect of things that don't happen because this counselor was so available to the kids, teachers and parents.

There certainly doesn't seem to be any less of need for someone to counsel kids on drugs/alcohol, cyber-bullying, or any other of the many social challenges faced by the average middle schooler.

[James_Obrien]

First of all the Howell Public Schools staff each building with a properly trained CUSTODIAL STAFF. They do not hire janitors.

For every group that claims to leave the room cleaner then they found it there are two that do not. Sweeping the floor and straightening the tables is not cleaning the room. It also goes beyond the fact that every space that is used must be cleaned for the group that uses it and again when they leave no matter how they leave it. There are also energy costs that have been researched and can be saved if the rooms are cleaned at the end of the day and shut down.

There is a fine line between supporting the community’s civic organizations and taking money out of the classroom. Since the Governor has made his cuts and the council has made theirs there is no money left to support these groups.

Now I know when you think on the scale of one group and three or four meetings a year it does not seem like a big savings. But when you think of it scale of 1500 to 2000 events a month it a whole new ball game.

[Thomas Jennings Jr.]

You know I would have to agree that some fee should be involved (although...I think maybe a hundred bucks a week is pushing it).

I agree with James, never call a custodian a janitor...

There is a lot of cost in letting others use the  building mainly in the forms of custodial services and utilities. That custodian could be home instead of being paid to stay late...and with many laid off, there are fewer around.
Why let the building sit vacant at night or at no charge when the board could make money at a time when they need it?

The taxpayers have shown that they don't want to pay for other people's "frills". 80 kids? Thats an extra buck fifty a week. 20 meetings a year? An extra $21. Thats probably even less than people SAVED on taxes by defeating the budget! It works out. The bottom line is no matter what, you're going to pay for what you're getting in some form.

Maybe it is partially because if school closes at 330 and the meeting isn't until 7-730 and is over around 900 and after cleaning up the custodian doesn't leave till 930...now they possibly had to pay someone overtime for those hours. Would moving up the meeting time help to alleviate the issue? I'm sure there groups that do not leave the building clean and unfortunately the board can not decide when they will enforce policy and when they wont, it needs to be the same for everyone. So again, the abuse  by some have caused hardship for others.

As someone else said, it could be held at a knights of columbus, church, or somebodys house that won't charge. Dues could be raised or new methods of fundraising could be attempted to cover the cost. Or getting by with bi-weekly meetings?

Again, I feel a hundred bucks a week is a bit much per use especially being trustworthy, loyal, courteous, and kind customers ;-)

[Joe_Tipaldo]

"customer" is the key term here.

Just who is the customer? It is the student and their parents. It's the parent's who pay the bill. Our taxes are the payment. Education is the product.

We, as customers, expect value for our money. we expect a quality product. Since NJ is one of the most expensive system of education in the country, then we expect plenty of return. Plenty of value. and i think for the most part, we here in howell, get a very good return. so now,when product/services are cut but the bill continue to go higher, then we are no longer getting value. in fact, we the customers are paying more for less.

That's the message we were tying to send when we voted down the budget. if we would have voted for the budget, we would have gotten the same for more money. we voted the budget down, now we are getting less for more. we as customers are damned if we do and damned if we don't.

Again, as i said in a different post, get rid of the stipends. make these afterschool acitivites either voluntary or part of your job. the fees should then be decreased. overall, i think we want our kids to get a quality eduaction. any thing extra is gravy and perhaps should be associated with a fee. but the fees should be reasonable.  these extras should add value.

as for non-education organizations not part of the school, they should have to pay a fee for the use of a school facility. but again, reasonable.

[Chris_Estevez]

So you think that the taxpayers of Howell that are part of not for Profit organizations should pay for the use of the schools.

Ok lets connect the dots:

-Buildings and grounds for education purposes are purchased with taxpayer dollars

-They are either funded through referendum or as a capital expenditure

-They are almost always funded through issuing tax free municipal debt. (i.e. education -improvement bonds) These bonds are classified as TAX FREE because they are funding structures for the public good.

-The debt service is then paid for through budget appropriations that are funded with taxpayer dollars.

-Maintenance on these buildings and grounds are paid from the budget, taxpayer dollars again.

-The budget is funded through property taxes. 
 
- Again the taxpayer pays for the debt service and maintenance cost of these buildings  and grounds by paying the property taxes.

-BOE's have a responsibility to be fiscally responsible. In theory they do not "own" the property the taxpayers that funded the purchase do.

In effect the Administration and those on the Board in favor of usage fees want to charge the RIGHTFUL OWNERS of this property for its use. This is the same as if you paid off your home and the bank wanted to continue to collect rent from you to remaining living there.

BTW. This is not a charge for custodians. They are required by contract to be at the buildings until 12 am on weekdays. This is a pure revenue play. I believe the administration already has a line item under revenue totaling $70,000.

The Non Profit I belong to gave over 10,000 hours of community service to Howell township the past 5 years. We do 2 food drives for the food pantry that collect between 800 and 1000 bags of food each time. Our Scouts and family members are members of the Howell First Aid, various Fire companies in town and give countless hours outside of Scouting. We teach young men to be good citizens, self sufficient ect... 

So you want to collect between $2000 and $4000 from us.  This will cause the Troop to disband, a Troop of 70 families.   


I find  this situation extremely ironic, since many of the goals of the Boy Scouts of
American are consistent with Goals of a good education system. 

So many Non profits in Howell that do so much good are going to be effected by this.

REMEMBER, you the TAXPAYER OWN these facilities. Not the BOE, they can be removed by vote and will come next election.

That's all for now. 

[Gene_Tanala]

I agree with most that was said, but just for curiosity, we all pay taxes to the township, (services were cut) so we get less for more. Has anyone asked what the township would charge? Also you have taxpayer funded 1st aid squads and of course firehouses. Our tax dollars pay for all of these, not just the schools.

Being devils advocate, and that is all I am doing, but the BOE is to educate the children..................most organizations are outside the realm of education.   Just ask what these other entities would charge.  I personally think the fee schedule presented is not proper, and that is why the BOE will be discussig this.

Also, the state has been approved to receive over 200 million in federal aid to rehire teachers, staff, etc. Everyone is waiting for the federal guidelines, so who knows if its just teachers, etc? Will the Gov keep it, give it to the Abbott Districts, Charter Schools. We have to wait and see.

One good thing is we may be able to bring back some custodians, and reinstate the Tuesday to Saturday shifts, making fees all but invisable.

Let's not over react and sit tight, the monies will be released for September.

Respectfully,

Gene Tanala
Taxpayer

[Chuck Welsh]

By the "ownership" logic, I would assume that we taxpayers "own" the fleet of police cars in Howell--and throughout the state, for that matter. The next time you need a ride, stop by and borrow one.

[James_Obrien]

Chuck do you think I can get one to take to work?

Custodians in HMS work till 12 AM the ES work till 11 PM M-F

[Thomas Jennings Jr.]

Hi I'm here for my police car.

Oh and my birthdayparty could be at the library!

[Chris_Estevez]

You guys are funny. Call me when you have something of value to add. Key here is NON PROFIT. Thomas your 2 year old birthday party is not a non profit activity.  Grow up and add something of value. Rides to work not non profit HA HA

If you like I can arrange a free ride in a police car for all of you.

Obrien with behavior like this glad you did not get elected. Heard you were a real hoot at the panara meeting.

[James_Obrien]

Chris,

Feel free to call me Jamie.

 As far as the Panara meeting goes you can't believe everything your here. But at least I can say I took the time to go. It's a shame someone reported it that way to you because we all left as gentlemen and agreed we would do it again.

[Phil_Sanfilippo]

ok folks. Let me clarify one thing once and for all. For what anyone may have heard the Panera meeting went very very well. Sure some heated debated took place. That was the purpose. I can say without a doubt no one was disrespected and despite opposing views it turned out better than I expected. A group of folks from Howell both from the school board and council and public meeting over a cup of morning coffee and discussing issues that were important to each of us.  No agenda not note taking no recording devices at least none that i cold see nothing more nothing less. The conversation  had a pretty good flow covering a bunch of topics in a short period of time At the end of the meeting we all shook hands and wished each other well enough so that many of us would like to do it again.   If any one has any doubts why not attend the next summit and see for your self. My hat goes off to Mayor Walsh and Tim O'Brien for showing up showing us that both school board and municipal officials can come together in a respectful manner along side the public in a informal setting and get along. My hat goes off to all who attended and made it a success.
                             god Bless
                              Phil