BOE Meeting on Fees

[Chuck Welsh]

You guys are funny. Call me when you have something of value to add. Key here is NON PROFIT. Thomas your 2 year old birthday party is not a non profit activity.  Grow up and add something of value. Rides to work not non profit HA HA

If you like I can arrange a free ride in a police car for all of you.

Obrien with behavior like this glad you did not get elected. Heard you were a real hoot at the panara meeting.

For the record, I wasn't trying to be funny. My analogy was intended to point out a simple flaw in your logic about "public property."

[Thomas Jennings Jr.]

I understood and agreed with your point...and was trying to be a little funny ;-)

But I wouldn't resort to name calling and personal attacks just because I disagreed with someone.

[Thomas Jennings Jr.]

I would say Gene is the person I would agree with the most on this one.
Chill out, show up en masse to the board meeting, and the dust will settle. Let cooler heads prevail.

As a former scout (and Eagle Scout from Pat's troop ;-) had to toss in the plug), I would be pretty annoyed with the fee too. Especially with the price so high. Do I think there should be a fee for building use? Yes. Should it be a hundred bucks a pop...no.

As far as the people owning the buildings, thats pretty incorrect. The buildings are paid for by the taxpayers for the collective education of the towns children. Ever pick up a text book and find "Property of the People of Howell, NJ"? NO. It says "This Textbook Is Property of the Howell Township Board Of Ed."

Joe says:"We, as customers, expect value for our money. we expect a quality product. Since NJ is one of the most expensive system of education in the country, then we expect plenty of return. Plenty of value. and i think for the most part, we here in howell, get a very good return. so now,when product/services are cut but the bill continue to go higher, then we are no longer getting value. in fact, we the customers are paying more for less."

Agreed. And I understand the issues with this. But did we not just vote down a budget to show our customer dissatisfaction, and are now ending up paying more for even less services? Sure taxes might be slightly lower, but when you factor in any services you end up paying for out of pocket...you might be paying more. And we almost lost courtesy busing.

As far as extracurriculars go, the job is to educate the students. That has nothing to do with extracurriculars. It will not be part of the job. Ever. Especially because boards and admins would end up doing silly things like making the gym teacher the band coach...and the music teacher the chess club advisor...Not saying a music teacher couldn't be a chess club advisor, but they would just put people places without thinking about who would make the best coach or advisor (and that persons heart might not really be in it).

They could make them voluntary...but then nobody would do them. They require a teaching cert...not because it makes the person a good coach or advisor....but because it ensures that the person has completed some basic courses in adolescent development and management, and is properly fingerprinted and background checked.

 Taking some one from the outside would require the BOE to take a risk on someone who may not be qualified. Districts keep try to keep advisor and coach positions in house to lessen liability concerns...If a teacher makes a mistake, there goes their career. If the accountant who coaches on the side makes a mistake, woops..now he doesnt coach. There's more at risk for the teacher who in turn (usually) want's to perform and keep things on the up and up.

[Pat Garaffa]

Chuck,

I disagree.  When it all nets out, those police cars, firetrucks and all property are still owned by the township.  And the township couldn't exist without the residents and taxpayers.  

We won't ever have our names on the deed or title.  And we certainly can't take the firetrucks or a patrol car out for a joy-ride either.  But they are still the property of Howell's residents.  It's no different than BP's oil wells or Walmarts freighters are, indirectly, the property of the stockholders.   

I guess the big difference is that I can do what I want with those oil wells if I owned enough BP stock.  But I somehow doubt that I would ever get to drive the patrol car even if I owned the majority of the property here and was our biggest ratepayer.     

You pay taxes or you bought shares - either way, I am sure you own a fractional piece.  There are about 10,000 ratepayers here so we all own something.  I would like the siren and the big red light on top of the police car.  And I want to squirt the firehose too.  You can keep the rest.  

[Thomas Jennings Jr.]

If your name is not on the deed to the house or the title of a car, do you own it? Not enough that its going to hold up in court, No.

If you sell stock, you get money for someone buying your stock.
If you leave the town or die, do they sell your portions of the buildings that you funded?

The town owns the town hall, police station, library, etc.
The BOE's own the schools and admin building.

A tax is imposed by government upon its residents. In essence, things that are for the good of the community are funded by residents. Libraries, schools, etc. Just because you fund it, doesn't mean you own it. The government imposes taxes so IT can pay for things to benefit the majority of its residents. It is not a corporation, you are not part owner, you are given voting rights because of the constitution and bill of rights and the government is imposing the tax.

If it was a corporation, which be happy it isn't, you would need to own a significant amount of stock (read as: Pay lots of money more than anyone else) to have your vote count. If your taxes are 8,000 (just a round number)...and the total tax levy collected is 180million (again...round number)....divide and then multiply by a hundred. You paid for 0.0044% of the taxes. That's less than one one hundredth of a percent. Not enough to make you an owner...or even hear your concerns.

Now if freebies need to be given away...and lights need to be left on etc. for building use. That needs to be factored into the budget and voted on along with everything else. If it is not budgeted for, someone needs to foot the bill.

[Chuck Welsh]

Chuck,

I disagree.  When it all nets out, those police cars, firetrucks and all property are still owned by the township.  And the township couldn't exist without the residents and taxpayers.  

We won't ever have our names on the deed or title.  And we certainly can't take the firetrucks or a patrol car out for a joy-ride either.  But they are still the property of Howell's residents.  It's no different than BP's oil wells or Walmarts freighters are, indirectly, the property of the stockholders.   

I guess the big difference is that I can do what I want with those oil wells if I owned enough BP stock.  But I somehow doubt that I would ever get to drive the patrol car even if I owned the majority of the property here and was our biggest ratepayer.     

You pay taxes or you bought shares - either way, I am sure you own a fractional piece.  There are about 10,000 ratepayers here so we all own something.  I would like the siren and the big red light on top of the police car.  And I want to squirt the firehose too.  You can keep the rest.  

Actually, we do agree. "Ownership" does not necessarily mean "access."