As long as we've got Jon Stewart...

[Kathy_Baratta]

...we've got a chance.  

I saw the following last night and besides being one of the most hilarious bits Jon Stewart has ever done (his Beck is becoming a thing of beauty. Almost a reason to keep Beck around.  ). Anyway, it got me thinking. What is the difference between this Mosque being built at "ground zero"(it's actually two blocks away BTW - in NYC that's like a country mile) and the NRA, headed by Moses (aka Charlton Heston), holding a gun rally in Littleton within weeks of the Columbine tragedy?

Is bad taste and insensitivity okay with white, judeo-christian people as long as it's only being done by other white, judeo-christian people?

Anybody?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-23-2010/the-parent-company-trap?xrs=share_fb

KB

P.S. After watching the clip tell me the prevaricating hypocrisy of FOX is not enough to nauseate anyone who is not a sociopath.

[Thom_Worman]

Interesting thing is that the guy who is funding the community center with prayer room (it's not exclusively a mosque) also owns 10% of News Corp (Fox "News.") He decided to have a meeting with the executive committee of said company in order to "strengthen the strategic corporate alliance."

http://arabnews.com/saudiarabia/article111262.ece

Why is Fox "News" meeting with terrorists? Why does Fox "News" hate our troops?

[Pat Garaffa]

The NRA Rally was weeks later and 15 miles away.  But I agree with you 100% that this was a stupid, insensitive thing to do and someone should have told Moses that he was an idiot!  Yes he had the right to do it but it didn't make it the right thing to do.   More on that later...... 

I think Jon Stewart is a great comedic talent. He could probably make ANYTHING funny so I wouldn't make villains out of FOX over his comments.  

I have a few friends that are always having a good time.  In fact, we often say “they could have fun in a phone booth” but that doesn’t mean phone booths are a fun place to be.  It all depends on the company.  And in Jon Stewart’s case, he can find the humor in nearly anything.   The Pope could fall and break his hip and Jon Stewart could easily get a belly laugh out of me with the proper joke.  He (and his writers) have a “gift” so let’s not deny that.   It doesn’t always make him right – it only makes him funny, ironic, topical and very capable of provoking thought.    

FOX and others have raised some valid questions.  And they, unlike some of the other spineless lemming media, are right to ask these questions.  

These are just a handful:  

It’s not a “country mile” as you stated.  It’s 560 feet way.   Or maybe you are right and that really is country mile to the average New Yorker?   But I doubt it.   I worked there for years.  I didn’t grab a cab or subway unless I had to walk 20 or more blocks in the rain so 2 blocks is not far at all.      

They also questioned the financing.  The investors had $18,000 in the bank a year ago.  The Mosque will cost $100,000,000 to build.  Where is the money coming from?  Lots of people are asking but no one has answered.  I can’t put 10 grand in the bank without filling out a form regarding the source.  But they plan to “acquire” 100 million and we are told that it’s none of our business.  

The intended ground breaking is the 10 year anniversary of 9/11. Are they truly intending to heal wounds and draw attention on this important day?  Or is it another slap in our face?  I don’t know.  

We raised our American flags at Iwo Jima because we were victorious.  And in many other locations around the world.  Many look at the Mosque as the same thing – a mark of victory.  It’s hallowed ground.  Many were lost and never found.  Their remains turned to ash.  They should understand that – not fight it.    

President Obama has stated publically that they have the right to do this.  No s**t Sherlock!   No one is questioning their rights and we all know they exist.  No law in the land could prevent this.  We only question the insensitivity of the project’s location.

And in President Obama’s’ defense, he also said he would not question the “wisdom” of the project and was only defending the “right” to do so.  Most swept that statement under the rug but I heard 2 distinctly different comments.  That told me that even he had his doubts but wasn’t willing to state it publically.  i.e – “Just because you have the right to do something doesn’t make it the right thing to do”.   His stock just went up a couple points but he still has a long way to go.  

Over 60% of America does not support this Mosque in this location and feel that any other location is much more acceptable.   Most are NOT biased or racists – just sensitive to a wound that has yet to heal and this mosque is salt in that wound.  

And the biggest reason I worry?  Nancy Pelosi supports it!  That alone is enough to question this project!  

We question the source of the 100 million so she wants to investigate who is funding the opposition.  Huh?  Opposition funding?  

It costs 100 million to build the Mosque.  Probably because it takes money to buy bricks, politicians, wood, politicians, cement, politicians, etc.  But how much does it cost to have an opinion?  Or make a cardboard sign?  Aren’t those still free?  

This just shows how out of touch she is and she relates everything to power, money and politics – vs our constitutional right to voice an opinion and hold up a misspelled cardboard sign.  And she is getting close to being right because she is so insulated while her, Reid, Frank and the rest of the stooges continue to demonstrate that our rights and opinions are not important and only power, money and politics can properly rule this country.   Now she incorrectly assumes that we can’t have an opinion without someone “funding our thoughts.”  

I can’t believe there isn’t a big “Duh” that floats above her hollow cartoon head.  

Personally, I don’t like the idea and would like to hear the answers regarding the funding.  I also view it as insensitive and FOX didn’t put that idea in my head – I did it on my own and without any outside funding.  I too want to believe that there is nothing here but I am still unconvinced.  

[Thom_Worman]

There's also strip clubs that are less than 100ft from the site. Those insensitive pricks.

I protest the presence of a McDonald's so close to the WTC site. They've killed so many Americans and now they've raised a flag! Near our hallowed ground! Arches even!

Funny thing is, The Islamic Community Center that also has a prayer room (It's not really a dedicated mosque, by the way... non-muslims are welcome, too) is exactly the sort of thing Al Queda stands against, that is... the integration of the western world with muslim heritage: liberal islam.) And just as there is no global voice for islam going "This is an insensitive tragedy!" there is no global voice for islam going "Raise flags upon their rubble." I can use loose strawman archetypes as well, it's a two way street. This "flag" nonsense is just that.

It's a perfect catch-22 for liberal muslims. Support Park51 and be perceived by 60% of Americans to raise a flag on rubble or stand against it and turn your back on your faith.

The only reason this is getting the attention it is is to make you forget that 155 (out of 178) House Republicans and 4 (out of 254) House Democrats voted down $7.4 billion in free heath care to certified 9/11 responders who are suffering from detrimental health effects directly related to the conditions they were exposed to during their response to the WTC attacks.

Thats a much bigger F.U. to Americans, who outnumber those who've died, than any dogdamn "flag" could ever represent.

Why the hell isn't that all over the news networks, Op-Eds, forums and protest signs? Oh... it doesn't fuel our favorite latent us-vs-them pastimes...

[Kathy_Baratta]

Pat,

Why does the fact that he is funny negate the truth Jon Stewart tells? How come your panties aren't all in a twist over this "terrorist contributor" being Rupert Murdoch's - by extension thereby being the FOX's - biggest investor?

And since you're so into who's funding what , I expect you'll want a strict accounting of every church in town and who is donating what? After we clear up that mystery we can go after the big guns like the Vatican. Now there's an organization that knows how to exploit people and their money. Murder, torture, rape, Inquisition - the Catholic Church has it all - all sitting on some of the most prime real estate in the world.

How come the sites out west that were the sites of some of the biggest human massacres the world had ever seen up and until the Holocaust are not considered "sacred ground." Why are there housing tracts all over the southwestern states? Oh. That's right. It was us killing them because we wanted their land so it was okay. I forgot. White people can kill those not as pale as they and call themselves God's messengers. It's brown people who better not put down that plow share and pick up a sword.

Silly me,

KB

 

[Thom_Worman]

Why does the fact that he is funny negate the truth Jon Stewart tells?

I find a lot of people preface Jon Stewart's work with "COMEDIAN" in big bold letters as if comedians are incapable of delivering a message with truth and value. Fact is, he's contracted on Comedy Central to do two things: Entertain and Earn Revenue. Comedy Central is a comedy channel... that doesn't negate the opinions expressed to be purely entertainment (just like how the History Channel shows Ghost Hunters and UFO Abductee stories doesn't make it fact, or Fox News' reporting to be journalism.) Given a chance, Stewart can row with the best of them, but he has a biting wit and delivery that caters to his position on a Comedy Channel very well to his bosses and wallet.

George Carlin was a comedian... Religion, Government, Consumerism, Corporatism, Drugs, Sex... I defy anyone to try and tell me his wisdom, albeit delivered in a non-conventional way, differed at all from reality. Same goes for Stewart... in this clip below, he points out how it's a sad tale that CNN and friends are giving less journalistic dignity to the world than his own comedy program does. His show is a COMPLETE mockery of modern News Stations

(Yes... reporting basic, common sense truths is also, sadly, a mockery of modern news stations)

"We get our material by looking at the absurdity of it all."

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQFB5YpDZE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQFB5YpDZE</a>

It's long. Start at 2:45 if you must. One of the biggest american comedians delivers one of the most serious pleas on a cable network (5:50.) Tell me that isn't sad. And it wasn't just a shot at Tucker Carlson and crossfire... it was a statement of the status of modern news networks in 2004. In 6 years, it's only gotten worse.

(Crossfire was cancelled shortly after this appearance, attributed directly to Stewart)

And since you're so into who's funding what , I expect you'll want a strict accounting of every church in town and who is donating what?

Most people have no idea what they're donating to. I'm certain I caught Phil San off guard when I pointed out his advertisements for the Knights of Columbus donations go straight into the pockets of those who funded Prop 8 and that bloods probably on his money already.

[Kathy_Baratta]

Almost forgot...


ig·no·ra·mus - [ig-nuh-rey-muhs, -ram-uhs] 
–noun, plural -mus·es.

an extremely ignorant person.
 
—Synonyms
simpleton, fool, dunce, know-nothing.

And she said she LOOKED IT UP yet she still couldn't get it right.!!!!! OK. So she can't properly navigate Google. Are you going to tell me there isn't a dictionary in the FOX newsroom?!?!?!             

I'll say it again, Anyone who considers FOX a news outlet is either on crack or oughta be. Crackheads aren't in touch with reality either and they like it that way too.           

KB

[Kathy_Baratta]

Why does the fact that he is funny negate the truth Jon Stewart tells?

I find a lot of people preface Jon Stewart's work with "COMEDIAN" in big bold letters as if comedians are incapable of delivering a message with truth and value. Fact is, he's contracted on Comedy Central to do two things: Entertain and Earn Revenue. Comedy Central is a comedy channel... that doesn't negate the opinions expressed to be purely entertainment (just like how the History Channel shows Ghost Hunters and UFO Abductee stories doesn't make it fact, or Fox News' reporting to be journalism.) Given a chance, Stewart can row with the best of them, but he has a biting wit and delivery that caters to his position on a Comedy Channel very well to his bosses and wallet.

George Carlin was a comedian... Religion, Government, Consumerism, Corporatism, Drugs, Sex... I defy anyone to try and tell me his wisdom, albeit delivered in a non-conventional way, differed at all from reality. Same goes for Stewart... in this clip below, he points out how it's a sad tale that CNN and friends are giving less journalistic dignity to the world than his own comedy program does. His show is a COMPLETE mockery of modern News Stations

(Yes... reporting basic, common sense truths is also, sadly, a mockery of modern news stations)

"We get our material by looking at the absurdity of it all."

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQFB5YpDZE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQFB5YpDZE</a>

It's long. Start at 2:45 if you must. One of the biggest american comedians delivers one of the most serious pleas on a cable network (5:50.) Tell me that isn't sad. And it wasn't just a shot at Tucker Carlson and crossfire... it was a statement of the status of modern news networks in 2004. In 6 years, it's only gotten worse.

(Crossfire was cancelled shortly after this appearance, attributed directly to Stewart)

And since you're so into who's funding what , I expect you'll want a strict accounting of every church in town and who is donating what?

Most people have no idea what they're donating to. I'm certain I caught Phil San off guard when I pointed out his advertisements for the Knights of Columbus donations go straight into the pockets of those who funded Prop 8 and that bloods probably on his money already.

I was watching Crossfire that glorious day. When he told Tucker Carlson he was a "dick" it was a thing of beauty. As usual, Stewart was calling them out on the fact that CNN has become "infotainment" and is thereby doing a great disservice to the nation/world it claims to inform. He said that what they did on Crossfire wasn't news it was "theater."
To make his point he turned to Tucker Carlson and said, "How old are you?" Carlson replied he was, I believe, 35. "And you wear a bow-tie," said Stewart, "Tell me this isn't theater."

Carlson, after getting past his deer-caught-in-the-headlights moment told Stewart, "You're much funnier on your show," to which Stewart replied, "...and you're a dick no matter what show you're on." Camera pan to Carlson who sat there like a penny waitin' for change.  

If you listened you could hear the nails being hammered into the Crossfire coffin. It was a rapturous moment for me. Within weeks, the show was gone and Tucker sent packing. How many shows has he turned up on since then - sans bow-tie, BTW?  

KB

[Pat Garaffa]

From Webster:

Definition of IGNORAMUS
: an utterly ignorant person : dunce

Examples of IGNORAMUS
I can't believe they let an ignoramus like that run the company.
<only an ignoramus would be foiled by the building's security system>

Origin of IGNORAMUS
Ignoramus, ignorant lawyer in Ignoramus (1615), play by George Ruggle, from Latin, literally, we are ignorant of.
First Known Use: circa 1616

She wasn't that far off.  

I agree with much of what has been said.  And Yes - I agree that Jon Stewart falls squarely in the same camp as George Carlin.  

2 questions:

What about the funding?  

And why is Nancy Pelosi asking for an accounting and investigation of those opposed when, in fact, the opposition is just an opinion?  And the last time I checked, those were still free.   Is she that far removed from reality?  

No one wants to answer those questions here or anywhere.  

Now let me watch this 14 minute clip.  Hopefully someone (Thomas???) will also find the clip that Kathy described.  That I would love to see.

EDIT:  Nevermind.  I didn't realize these were the same clips.  Good stuff all around.  I guess you can't expect much when you name your kid "Tucker". 

But one more question for Kathy - weren't you once (and recently) one of CNN's bigger fans?   

[Kathy_Baratta]

I just watched Thomas' clip. IT IS the one I was referring to.

Have fun,

KB

P.S. I was also watching the day the "Prince of Darkness" stormed off the set after James Carville cleaned his clock by telling the truth! Not being familiar with the concept of truth, Novak was quite put out to say the least!     

Ahhh! Good times. Good times!

Robert Novak Storms Off CNN Set	DQ

KB

[Ginger_Hoffmeier]

Comedy can be a great tool in political communications and manipulation -- not to be underestimated. It can be used to endear your candidate to voters or make the opposing candidate look foolish -- all without telling one lie. Now if only I can get that video to open without upgrading my system software again...

The whole mosque situation is yet another example of how our laws can be used against us. There is no law against insensitivity, and none (that I know of) that allows a group of people, no matter how large, to decide who can buy property and build something that is within the zoning and who cannot.

I look at it this way... suppose some people who are of the same race and religion of the men who murdered my husband and kidnapped my daughter (and then committed suicide) moved in to a house two blocks from my house?

I might feel rotten about it but legally what could i do other than offer to buy or rent the house myself. I can't demand that "these people" are banned from the area because they invoke unpleasant memories or frighten me.

The good side of this is that a group of people can't stop me from moving into a Hasidic Jewish neighborhood (for instance) because my German last name invokes bad memories and fear. I would have every right to pursue happiness there and believe that I would be tolerated if not welcomed. Nor can they tell the seller not to sell me the house.

The same people opposed to this mosque have never (to my knowledge) objected to the warm relations that the last president enjoyed with the Saudis, who were linked to the 9/11 disaster. I understand their emotions but not their logic.

[Thom_Worman]

http://manhattan.ny1.com/content/top_stories/124338/police--cab-driver-stabbed-by-passenger-who-asked--are-you-muslim--


Police: Cab Driver Stabbed By Passenger Who Asked "Are You Muslim?"

Wonder why he didn't simply ask him if he felt Park51 was being insensitive? I don't see any taxi passenger leaders condemning this barbaric act.

Edit: Idiot charged.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/25/cabbie-attacked/

[Kathy_Baratta]

But one more question for Kathy - weren't you once (and recently) one of CNN's bigger fans?   

If by recently you mean when Bernard Shaw was the main anchor and they covered actual news then yes, I was.

Now even Christiane Amanpour has jumped ship and is now ABC's new Diane Sawyer (the old model getting a little long in the tooth I guess  ).

Anyway - Euro News, dude! Euro News! I've said it here countless times (channel 103, Cablevision).

I watch American "news" to keep up with the latest propaganda. For news I turn to Euro News.

KB

[Pat Garaffa]

"And since you're so into who's funding what , I expect you'll want a strict accounting of every church in town and who is donating what?  After we clear up that mystery we can go after the big guns like the Vatican. Now there's an organization that knows how to exploit people and their money. Murder, torture, rape, Inquisition - the Catholic Church has it all - all sitting on some of the most prime real estate in the world."

I don't have a major problem with 100 million people (from any religion) tossing a buck into the collection plate and hoping for salvation.  And then the collection plate will be brimming with the same amount of money.  And hopefully they will do something worthy with the money.  

But I still wonder why one entity (a person, company or country) will provide 100 million and everyone claims there is no motivation behind it other than it's intended purpose?  I just don't buy it.  I'm cynical and there is more here than we know.  

"How come the sites out west that were the sites of some of the biggest human massacres the world had ever seen up and until the Holocaust are not considered "sacred ground." Why are there housing tracts all over the southwestern states? Oh. That's right. It was us killing them because we wanted their land so it was okay. I forgot. White people can kill those not as pale as they and call themselves God's messengers. It's brown people who better not put down that plow share and pick up a sword."

You also made some excellent points about historical events.  I agree and we exploited others and raised our flags on their land.  That was wrong.  But when did 2 wrongs make it right?  

Follow the money.  

[Joe Parente]

Yeah, if you follow the money it leads back to Fox and Murdoch. Obviously Fox is perpetuating this "controversy" to increase their ratings and make more money for their shareholders, especially Alwaleed, the dark and mysterious Muslim behind the funding of the community center.

Like Thom asked, why is Fox meeting with (and 10% owned by) a terrorist supporter?

Boy, you Fox watchers don't know when you're being manipulated. Here's a hint: Whenever Fox is on your TV, you're being manipulated. Here's another hint: Whenever your TV is on, you're being manipulated.

As far as the community center goes, they have a perfect right to build it where ever they want. If you block their right to build it, you might as well just give up all your own rights.